Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Intro: Welcome to Stand Up. To Stand Out the podcast where we help you master clarity, confidence, and influence.
[00:00:07] Join over 10,000 listeners worldwide and unlock the power to turn your goals into reality.
[00:00:12] This podcast is designed to bring you insights from the industry and some inspiration to get it done.
[00:00:19] At DNA, we believe that better communication leads to better outcomes, so let's dive in.
[00:00:26] Stuart Paap: Very excited to have a conversation today. I have Patrick Anquetil, he is a PhD, MBA, but he is the Chief Executive Officer at Portal Instruments. Uh, prior to that, he was the former co-founder and director of strategic planning at Snap dx, if I pronounce that correctly, and then extensive engineering or experience in.
[00:00:47] High tech, bioengineering companies, developing business and operational plans, and securing venture capital, and just a fascinating journey. Patrick, welcome to the show.
[00:00:57] Patrick Anquetil: Thank you, Stuart. Pleasure to be here. Very [00:01:00] excited about this conversation and, uh, yeah, let's, let's go from there.
[00:01:03] Stuart Paap: So, good. I love to start early and I'm always curious about everyone's journey from, you know, childhood through grade school and into high school.
[00:01:12] Where did you first. Become interested in, in technology, in engineering, and all of that. When did that start for you?
[00:01:22] Patrick Anquetil: Okay, so, so engineering, I, I was also thinking entrepreneurship as well when you were asking the question because I think to me they're very much intertwined. I always like, I. To tinker. I always liked technology.
[00:01:31] I was heavily influenced by my father, who was an engineer. In fact, I remember, you know, when I was like six, seven years old, I actually did not understand what an engineer did. I had to look it up in a dictionary and it was very sort of, you know, foreign. On the other hand, I always loved to build things.
[00:01:47] I was into Legos, I was into building mechanisms, you know, from recycling parts, for example. So that there was one vignette. The other vignette I was always fascinated by, you know, stories of people [00:02:00] who had started companies. I remember at uni during early years in university, sort of, you know, stumbling upon an article, I think in Forbes of Fortune about, uh, Phil Knight who.
[00:02:13] Those stories were just incredible because coming out of France, we never heard those, you know, the, the idea was that you'd do a great school and then you'd get a government job. That was kind of the highest thing you could, you could do President. French society is kind of a pyramid who was the president on top and everyone does the same school.
[00:02:30] It, it has changed nowadays, but back then it was, it was like that. So these are the two vignettes as well. And, and in addition to that, I was always fascinated by, you know, space travel, for example, advanced technology. So all of this kind of led me in the past. Basically I am, uh, I am today. There's no doubt about that.
[00:02:46] Stuart Paap: So interesting. So, because I'm always curious about people's path to entrepreneurship. I had a similar experience where I was just fascinated by people who had started companies. It just seemed foreign to me, and that really sparked with you, [00:03:00] even as a student in France. So then you go through your, your schooling, you get a, a PhD, you get a, a master's in business.
[00:03:08] At what point did you start to see how you're going to fuse your love of technology? Business and entrepreneurship into something that would transcend the traditional business world.
[00:03:20] Patrick Anquetil: You know, it's interesting. So first of all, coming out of France, so I, I grew up in Paris basically, and then I went to study abroad at ETH in Zurich, which is kind of like the, the MIT of Switzerland.
[00:03:30] So growing up in France, I never thought this is. This would be a story that would apply to me. You know, I always thought, well, you know, this is someone else's story. And they were, I don't know, they were maybe very special or they were lucky. So I never saw that had it in me. It, it was more something that you read about, you know, and but was very distant and there weren't, like today some role models that were only a few years.
[00:03:52] Ahead of you that that did not exist. Uh, this was way before the internet and, and so on. And so for me, I kind of, um, I never started hide it [00:04:00] in me, but on the other hand, gradually kind of build it up. You know, I remember in university I was already interested in, in business how business plans get, uh, get put together and so on.
[00:04:10] But also at the same time, I also was someone who never had, uh, you know, sort of a, like an aha moment, like a great idea. Always very passionate about the market and. I was just very interested in technology and what it can do and how do you find truth, basically how do you really, you know, design and build based on first principles and and so on.
[00:04:31] So that's something I've always been fascinated by. And when a Master's thesis was completed, I couldn't stop and, which is why I ended up doing a PhD afterwards. I, that my schooling couldn't end there, you know? What I'd heard from others who had done PhDs that were a few, few years ahead of me is that the PhD really tests your limit in terms of your knowledge, your capabilities, uh, and what you can do basically in science and and engineering.
[00:04:55] So I really loved that idea, so I wanted to try it out. And so that's how I ended up, uh, at MIT [00:05:00] and I came, uh, at MIT in the early year or early months of 1999, right before, you know, the. Crazy internet boom right before Akamai got public. I think sometimes in March or May of that year. These were unbelievable ties.
[00:05:13] I mean, it makes, I mean, AI is kind of fun right now to see it, but yeah, it was not, it is not. The hype that was back then mean if you were an engineer, you were on top of the world. I mean, people were like giving your car if you were joining there company. I mean, it was just, uh, it was just a different times and also something that was no one.
[00:05:32] No, no one was accustomed to that before. Right? There was not this appeal for engineering and so on back then, so that's kind of how gradually it built up. But it's not that I woke up one day, I had an idea and I figured out it sort of, you know, gradually built over time. My first job was in finance and I got an MB after that, and then I connected with my mentor and then we started a company together.
[00:05:50] That's kind of the, the step by step. But that's, uh, that's how it happened to me.
[00:05:55] Stuart Paap: Yeah. Well, it's interesting. I, I think you're, what I notice about your story is you're following your [00:06:00] interests, of course, as an engineer Legos, and with your dad's guidance, of course, you're also interested in, in entrepreneurship through that Phil Knight story, and he's, he has Shoe Dog is one of the best Yes.
[00:06:10] You know, business biographies that anyone should read. It's just, you wanna know how hard it is to, to really start your own thing. And so I think you have these as your north. Stars or they're guiding you and pulling you, but it seems like you're also following the currents a little bit. Getting to Zurich, then coming to MIT, talk to me about the leap, sort of from being a, I don't wanna say an observer, but you were getting advanced degrees, but that leap from zero to one to coin Peter Thiel's book, or just to look at that leap, go from nothing to something.
[00:06:42] How was that for you personally? How did you make that transition? Was it through your co-founder? Was were you finally just. Finding an inflection point? Had the market changed or was it all those things?
[00:06:53] Patrick Anquetil: You know, again, it's, this is very gradual process. I, I was already, by the end of my undergrad and graduate school in Zurich, [00:07:00] already was starting to kind of collect knowledge around, you know, how you start companies, how do business plans get put together, and so on.
[00:07:07] And then when I came to MIT, similarly, I joined, you know, I, I had a. But my focus was really on mechanical engineering and robotics. But then I would take business classes back then. But believe it or not, actually, Nuba Ian, who is now very famous because he's the head of flagship and you know, the chairman of Moderna, I took his class actually at MIT, he used to teach, actually it was a great class.
[00:07:25] And you know, you, you'd learn a lot from that. And so in those classes, typically you also got to take an idea and then create a hypothetical business plan, uh, around it. And so always collected those experiences. When the time came to, to kind of work on the two opportunities that I had, Synap, dx and then, and then Portal, it kind of felt right into place.
[00:07:45] So with Portal, what happened is that this was, sorry, with, um, with Synap dx, this was a field study at Harvard Business School, uh, led together with a professor Bob Higgins. Bob was basically one of the founders of capital. [00:08:00] Firm of healthcare investing. So he's asked us to look into autism as an investment field and come up with an investment thesis.
[00:08:08] And out of that we concluded, well, you know, there's not very much going on on a therapeutic side. And this is way before the biotech craze that we've seen, like in the early, uh, 2010s. And so as such, you know, during a diagnostics might be actually the low hanging fruit. And so. We did a market study on this.
[00:08:23] It was very clear that there was a need to it, but we couldn't find the technology and then, you know, fast forward a few months, then Bob basically introduces me to my mentor Stan lap. Stan is very famous, kind of the legend in diagnostics. He started psychic exact sciences, Nikkos and px We, we did together.
[00:08:40] And so we kind of got paired together as a third guy came in. The three of us then went out and looked for technology for about a year. And then build a company from there. And so, and then similarly with Portal, I knew the inventor because he was my, my PhD advisor, and he thought the tech was ready for prime time, which of course it wasn't the typical, you know, sort [00:09:00] of, uh, academic, uh, you know, research, uh, getting into the real world type situation.
[00:09:04] Uh, but then there was enough interest from couple of pharmaceutical companies, ano fund.
[00:09:15] Uh, those things, those things happened as well. So there's a bit of ity combined with kind of building knowledge over time and then recognizing an opportunity and then just going for it,
[00:09:25] Stuart Paap: you know, and I mean this as a, a high compliment 'cause I love your story, but it's almost like I. You're an accidental entrepreneur.
[00:09:32] Not that you didn't want to be, and you are, but it seems like it's, it was something that was a far away dream as a young, younger person in France. And then, you know, through your persistence and, and your efforts, you put yourself in the right situation and then all of a sudden these opportunities appeared.
[00:09:50] You know, looking back now, do you feel like you could have sped up that journey for you? Uh, or are you happy with how it has sort of found [00:10:00] its way to you because it, you seem to be always interested in what you've been doing? So
[00:10:05] Patrick Anquetil: for me, the process was different and I think it'd be different for someone else.
[00:10:08] For me, there was no opportunity that was kind of self-evident even during the internet boom years actually, as well as I was. Part of it. I was there, I was actually writing business plan, but none of them really were like, okay, like a no brainer actually as well. So I was very long-term committed, I guess because I did collect the vignettes and, and, and the knowledge and, and the, and the network actually as well.
[00:10:27] It was super network actually. But the early 2000, it was pretty, pretty amazing. But again, the opportunity did not present itself right away. And I think for others that are maybe more fortunate, let's say, let's call it this way, where it's very crystal clear to them. You know what the opportunity is, where the market is, and then they go out and fund the, the tech or the solution for it.
[00:10:47] That, for me, was a bit different. It was kind of the reverse one, which is the, it's, it's not, it's not bad, but it's less ideal in that, um, you got some cool tech and you're trying to find a market for it actually as well. Uh, and so that's kind of the, the process by which it happened. [00:11:00] It happened for me,
[00:11:01] Stuart Paap: right?
[00:11:01] So instead of market. Need and a product fit. Yes. You were sort of product focused. Yes. Looking for a market, right? That's right.
[00:11:07] Patrick Anquetil: Yeah. And I think, again, I don't think there's anything bad about it. I do think it's better if you know the market. I mean that's, there's, it's undoubtedly, but it's not that you are at a significant disadvantage if you start from the technology actually as well.
[00:11:17] In fact, for me, that's what I found the most appealing. You know, it's kind of creating something out of nothing on the market side. Right. And, and so it's very appealing and, and you have to also. Look at it as an amazing opportunity because there's, there's a lot of research in academia that just don't, doesn't make it to the marketplace.
[00:11:34] And it's not that it's bad research, there's just no market for it or it hasn't been created. Right. And so I think, I think there's great to have people who actually look at the problem from that side. And I think it's a good service for society because otherwise it's r and d dollars that just, you know, they're not wasted because the knowledge is still there and, and, and published upon, but it's not maybe the most optimal way to to, to do it.
[00:11:55] Yeah.
[00:11:56] Stuart Paap: So talk to me about portal instruments. Um, [00:12:00] obviously this is focused on injections and, and really ensuring that you're changing the stigma and the, the fear around people having injections. Could you explain the 30,000 foot view of what Portal Instruments is doing and, and what the technology is all about?
[00:12:16] Patrick Anquetil: Yeah, sure. So with Portal, there is really the opportunity to transform the way injections are performed. The needle and syringe, the, the Hypodermic Needle is a, you know, 150 year old technology. It kind of hasn't changed during that time. And what's fascinating about it from a, a tech and uh, kind of application perspective, it works actually really well.
[00:12:35] I mean, there's nothing wrong with inland syringe, but for that it's a little bit unsafe and people hate it, right? And so that to me created really an opportunity to, to disrupt that. You have to believe that in the future, you know, there won't be any needles. And, and we'd have something that's a little bit better.
[00:12:52] That's also not analog. I mean, taking a pill or taking a, a drug, you know, Swiss syringe, like one of the weight loss drugs, for example, that's, you know, very [00:13:00] famous these days. These are all very analog. Sort of, you know, experiences, right? There's nothing digital about taking a pill and I think there's a bit of a missed experience or missed opportunities there as well.
[00:13:10] Because unlike having food, which is also very analog actually as well, is there, you've got a whole care team that actually does care for you and is cost associated with that. And so wouldn't it be great if you actually facilitated the administration of, of medicine and not only help the patients. Um, and, and kind of, you know, doing it right and um, and um, and doing it at the right time.
[00:13:33] Uh, but also if you kind of provided context to them, uh, support, um, you know, a, uh, um, an indication as to how, how well they're doing on the therapy and so on. I think there's a lot of opportunities with the device. That's less analog, easier to use needle free because that's, you know, that's, there's really nothing, uh, that's gonna poke you if it's, if it's needle, uh, there's opportunities there to create those feedback loop, and I think we should see better outcomes.
[00:13:59] You [00:14:00] know, for the patient, uh, for the group of patients and for society, uh, down the road by creating those feedback loops all around, all around. Uh, so that's kind of the vision with, uh, with Portal at the same time. It is, it is challenging because you are disrupting something that medically. It's just fine.
[00:14:16] I mean, it is very efficient. It's just very unsafe and people hate it. So I've got the device here if you wanna have a quick look at it. Yeah, I would. This is where it looks like, this is the, the reusable part. It's got, basically, you could turn it on, it's got a cartridge door. Mm-hmm. That opens where you can put the, uh, uh, the container.
[00:14:33] So right here. And then the cartridge. Cartridge is actually quite interesting. It is shaped like a prefilled syringe, uh, like this guy here. But for, uh, it has no needle. It just has this cone. Uh, the closure. Uh, and then here, there is a very fine orifice that creates a jet, uh, that's about maybe like a third of the smallest needle that you, you typically use to inject medicine.
[00:14:57] So it's almost like a virtual needle, and the [00:15:00] injection happens very, very fast. Uh, and that jet basically gently pierces the skin and the device itself controls that experience all along. So a whole injection like ticking a vaccine that know may take a few seconds. Uh, we do it like in a fraction of a second.
[00:15:13] It's, it's over before you even realize. And it's pretty much, you know, almost sensation, uh, sensation free. And it's, it's very, very, you know, you feel like a tickle. Uh, and studies actually on that, uh, along the, just a transformed experience. So. The challenge is actually not on the technology side. It's more on the business side.
[00:15:29] How do you, who's gonna pay for that technology and how you gonna introduce it to the market? That's, I think, actually where, where most of the challenges are, believe it or not.
[00:15:37] Stuart Paap: So let's talk about the technology and then the challenges. So help me understand just a technical level, what is happening to allow this, your technology to deliver the medication without piercing the skin The way a, a needle does, of course it's trans, it's going through the skin, but how does it work?
[00:15:56] Patrick Anquetil: So yes. What you do, you compress the drug. Yeah. And then [00:16:00] you let it flow. A very small orifice. When it comes out of that orifice, it actually travels at a very, very high speed, almost like at the speed of sound. And then. Because it's very small and very coated. There is no way to go for it, but to kind of gently kind of push the skin away and then once it enters a tissue, it gets slowed down by the, the tissue that it sees that by the, by the skin and then by the, uh, the subcutaneous spot that's, that's underneath it.
[00:16:27] Uh, and so that's kind of how it works. It sounds almost like out of Star Trek. Um, and in fact it's been around for some time, but really what the MIT technology allowed us to do is not only to shape the jet, but also to. Meaning that we can adjust it during the injection, uh, process, uh, and make it a very, very consistent and very reliable, uh, injection along the way.
[00:16:48] Stuart Paap: Okay. And so, yeah, it seems like it shapes the. Fluid into sort of a, a, a microneedle that can, you know, translate Exactly. You got it.
[00:16:58] Patrick Anquetil: That's exactly, exactly right. Yep.
[00:16:59] Stuart Paap: Very [00:17:00] interesting. And of course, much more appealing. Right? I, I have two little kids and every time, the only trauma we've really had over the last few years has been, you know, getting their shots.
[00:17:08] And it's just the, it's terrible experience for any parent, but it's also, of course, a, a stigma and a fear for many patients with, with anything they have to inject. So, let's talk about your challenges then in the, in the market. You said, you know. Who's driving this? And I work with many companies in, in biotech and life sciences.
[00:17:27] Where is this gonna be driven by patient demand? Is this driven by the healthcare providers? Is this, you know, who's, who's driving demand? And so where has been your focus with portal instruments?
[00:17:38] Patrick Anquetil: So when we get the technology out of MIT, the challenge that we had was that the tech was extremely broad.
[00:17:46] You could inject anything anywhere, anytime, but not necessarily all those embodiments where, um, you know, made business sense. And so we really had to take a step back and understand, you know, [00:18:00] where's the value I. Like in an absolute basis. And also where's the value relative to an Eland syringe where we're gonna be competing with something that at best or at most is Tencent to injection.
[00:18:11] I mean, it's really, really small. And so we recognized then from there, it through the, the work that we've done, and again, it, it took some time. It's not that it was like we woke up one day and we, we figured it out, but we realized that actually there was a whole class of medicines that actually not only were very valuable, where, you know, one, this is just water in this.
[00:18:30] Uh, in this cartridge here? Yeah. Where on average if this was a drug, uh, this would be a thousand dollars per dose, number one. And so these are all, the biologics basically fit within that lab antibodies or, or monoclonal antibodies, rapid proteins, peptides, and so on. Uh, so number one, there are a lot of values there.
[00:18:47] And then moreover, those medicines were used to treat chronic diseases. And with a chronic disease, that means that the fact that the device is reusable becomes very attractive because then you can take the capital cost, uh, [00:19:00] associated with it and spread it over many injection, and as such, really reduce the cost per injection.
[00:19:04] Uh, and so that's, that was the first ation and then. And then the second observation was, was to understand what Jibo, who's got the money actually. So it's not the patient. A patient never has the money, also doesn't wanna, doesn't want to pay basically for healthcare, the physician. I think it's more complicated.
[00:19:19] Uh, there is an in-office device that we could do, but we haven't actually there figured out. I think it'll happen later on. It becomes very valuable if all the medicines can be injected in that way. It turns out that from a regulatory perspective, we need to revalidate. The injection process for each drug.
[00:19:36] So it's gonna take some time to have an offering that can really cover, you know, like, you know, 80% of all the drugs getting injected in the office. But on the other hand, for biologics, like, you know, Ozempic, wegovy, uh, Humira, all those like amazing, you know, big, big. Uh, of drugs. Um, it turns out that because of the compensation, I mean they, they're sort of large molecule type, um, you know, products.
[00:19:59] Because of [00:20:00] that, they actually tend to be not only high volume to get the therapeutic dose, um, but also higher viscosity than water, and oftentimes. The patient actually doesn't have enough force in their thumb to perform the injection. And as such, they get augmented by, uh, devices. Like I have one device here by those devices called Autoinjectors or Apen.
[00:20:20] Uh, you know, it's the same, kind of the same technology. Uh, it's basically a syringe that's in there, you know, like, kind of like our syringe that's here. Uh, but then there's a spring in the back that augments the patient. Uh, and also because there's a device around it, you can hide the needle. You just actually don't see the needle, uh, which again, in studies.
[00:20:36] Patients prefer because, uh, less.
[00:20:42] Set up the right environment that was very conducive to introduce now a better device. Uh, and that's what we've done. So our, our business model is to basically partner with therapeutics company, you know, biotech, pharma companies where they've got a drug that's in a difficult market where they need to differentiate, [00:21:00] and that's where.
[00:21:01] Working with us becomes actually very interesting because we've got a lot of patterns. You can see some of them, you know, in the back actually on the wall right here. And suddenly they can be the only game in town for that therapeutic area that's got a needle free embodiment. Or, and by the way, because it's computer controlled, it's also very easy for us to connect it.
[00:21:17] And as such, you can really get enhanced, uh, therapy management. We can guide the patient, track their medicines, uh, and then help them basically, uh, you know, with, uh, with kind of their daily life and, and how, what it means to take the, take the therapy, um, you know, at, at the same time. So that's kind of what we operate in.
[00:21:34] Stuart Paap: So it seems like you've been finding that right partner so that they can, it's a value proposition of both sides, that it, you stand out for them and they stand out for you and together it's a, it's a huge value offering. Is that exactly accurate? You got it? Yep. Okay. Yeah. And so, so talk to me about where is, so portal instruments, of course, has been in existence for how long now?
[00:21:58] Patrick Anquetil: It's been over about 10 years [00:22:00] actually. Those things take, uh, take time. Yeah. And I can kind of describe to you what we've done and, and so on. Yeah. Along the way. Yeah.
[00:22:05] Stuart Paap: So talk to us about the journey and then I also want to talk about, uh, you know, team building and finding the right people and, and, um, oh, that's good.
[00:22:13] Yep. Yeah, please.
[00:22:14] Patrick Anquetil: Great topic. So. The genesis of Portal was that we were going to basically partner with Sanofi and, and create a platform technology for them. Mm-hmm. And equity holders in the company. Uh, and, and by the way, the funniest thing is a following. So by then I had been three years at Synap dx.
[00:22:31] We were planning for a clinical study. The, the study was planned. There was really, actually no need for the business guy anymore, which is kind of, that was right time for me to jump, uh, jump over and at the same time. That technology had been sponsored by Sanofi at MIT, and there had been, I think 11 research projects actually done that.
[00:22:50] Always successful. And so they had a very. They had a very keen interest to fund the company around it. And so here's what's interesting for me as I still, the young guy, [00:23:00] I thought, this is amazing. I'm gonna raise $20 million in two months and just really, we're gonna get going. I get the method from Stan, you know, from Stan Lap Peters.
[00:23:08] He kind of taught it to me. I'm just gonna replicate it, what we've done at Synap X and uh, and just apply it to Portland. Be less of a starting synap. Synap just so. Even with the dream team, I, we had Stan, we had, um, Jeff Luba, Jeff was the CEO of Exact Sciences and super accomplished. And then me, I was just kind of the, the junior guy we had.
[00:23:32] So we ended up getting amazing investors. We had amazing clinician. The tech came out of Luke Con's lab. Luke Conal discovered the gene of muscular dystrophy. I mean, like, not a, like, not a pound cesar, like a major thing. Even with all of that, it took us a year to basically raise money. Right? So it just takes time.
[00:23:50] But nonetheless, in my, in my mind I thought, okay, well here, Santa Fe interest, it's good. $20 million in two months. Actually, it took a year and quarter. I [00:24:00] only raised half, and Sanofi only gave a third of that half to find two other investors to get to the $11 million series there. So I think those things' easy and uh, you know, you hear a lot of, you know, all the glamorous, you know, success story and so on.
[00:24:15] Oftentimes they actually sort of, you know. Over on the good side, not the bad side. And I think those things take time. And, uh, there's this guy, you know, Scott Belsky, think he's, he's written a book, probably what the title is, but basically the premise is that, yeah, you know, it's, you think that, well the, the whole process of entrepreneurship is like a hockey stick.
[00:24:35] Like you get to a hard point and then you kind of overcome it, and then it's glory and then, you know, uh, you know, product is successful. You make millions. And so is this actually not true? It's, it's a lot of micro, all micro ups and down. And in fact, it's a little bit, how to say, a little bit stressful to be on a high because you know from experience that it's not going to last.
[00:24:58] Something's gonna happen tomorrow. [00:25:00] You gonna have to, uh, you know, it's gonna be a big let down. That's the journey. And I think what's interesting with that, people who do well tend to be very resilient and they're also problem solvers actually as well. And I think, I think that's what I find is very exciting.
[00:25:12] And I think, I think we as entrepreneurs, also as engineers, but not just engineers, I, we, as entrepreneurs, we are. Problem. And you know, you wanna talk about the team. The team is like another thing that you're trying to problem actually, uh, as well. So anyway, I dig a little bit, but I think point not easy really took, um, a long time to do that.
[00:25:33] The detecting work initially. Uh, you know, we had, you know, Sanofi build out. I mean, so was like a lot of like after, after. And so, and I think here the trick is that you wake up in the morning, you dust yourself up and you go back at it. And that's just your, that's just a journey. And I, I think it's, uh, this, this managing oneself I think is probably the most important thing and the most important story to hear because this is not the Instagram vignette, you know.
[00:25:55] Five second, you know, video. Oh, you, no, it's a lot of, it's a labor of love, I would [00:26:00] say. Uh, and you have to be able to just really not feel overwhelmed and and depressed. By that, you know, in the end it's gonna work out.
[00:26:07] Stuart Paap: Right. I mean, solving a hard problem over a sustained period of time is, is hard. It's, there's no glamor to it.
[00:26:14] It's just you have to believe in what you're doing. There's a mission, there's a purpose. If you're lucky enough, you get some tailwinds, but you know, wherever you are, you know, don't believe it because you're gonna be, you know, the next day is a new day. I'm curious though, a lot of my focus with my clients is on effective communication and, and the reason I found that.
[00:26:34] This is so important, especially with new ventures or in, is because when you finally are onto something that's unique, you have to be good at articulating the value clearly and consistently. And, and so a lot of people are in science or tech fields spend a lot of time, I. Looking vertically at models and looking at research and looking at all kinds of ways.
[00:26:54] But then ultimately, if you're lucky enough to try to bring this to a market to patients, you have to kind of think more [00:27:00] horizontally. I want to talk about your experience in, in raising funding. You know, there's tough times of course, and you raise as much, but when you're thinking about articulating the value of what you're doing, what has been, or what's been your approach to be ultimately successful at raising capital?
[00:27:17] And there's no what way to do it.
[00:27:19] Patrick Anquetil: It's true. I think it's really an art form. You cannot learn it from a book. You have to learn by doing and by doing it a lot actually.
[00:27:30] It comes in, how you position the value prop actually is very, very important. And I think this is where engineers, by and large, I be at a disadvantage because I think for most people, including me, the basic business side gets actually overlooked. And even the basic business equation, right? Which is that we got a product, there's a market, we're gonna make X product at that amount and sell it for, you know that, that you know Y amount.
[00:27:56] And then you know, the Y minus DX gives you the profit. You [00:28:00] wouldn't believe in all the business plans that I, I read, how often that gets actually overlooked. People get enamored with the tech and the tech will solve everything, but they forget oftentimes the economic position of that. And I think, I think here a great fundraising at the end of the day needs to clearly articulate not only the value prop of the, of the problem, but also how is this investor going to make money and, you know.
[00:28:23] X amount of time, or conversely, what are the milestones along the way to create value that would enhance the, uh, you know, the, the value of the company. Uh, and as such, uh, you know, will, will, will benefit investors too. So I, I think that that part is, is number one and just always look at it, okay, forget about the tech.
[00:28:39] The tech actually always works. Typically what's harder is, is their willingness to pay for the product, right? Is it really creating a strong value prop where it becomes, uh, indispensable? To the user or is it a, or, or is it a commonly acknowledged problem for which you really provide a, a solution that no one else can do?
[00:28:56] So I think that's number, number two. Um, it has to be a market that's [00:29:00] at least big enough typically. I mean, the market is to be at least a billion dollar market. Um, because other than that it's just, it's just very niche and can be. Just as painful, but just, you know, with smaller, with smaller market. And then number three, you also need very clearly def um, uh, defendable intellectual property, right?
[00:29:17] So not, not just patents, but also maybe a process or maybe, you know, the team actually might be what's differentiated as well. So, so all those three things know the, uh, the big market clear value prop. Key differentiation actually. And then, uh, defensible ip, those three things actually are really what's required for a, at the minimum for, for basic, uh, great fundraising.
[00:29:38] And then you get into the, the more sort of subtlety, I think. I think the next one is, the first one would be the team. I think if you can be, uh, self-aware enough to understand where your limits are and what you're good at and what you're not maybe good at as well, and find people, team members that compliment you.
[00:29:57] I mean, that becomes immensely powerful, right? Because. [00:30:00] You have the, the crucible for the optimal team, which is a team of people who have a similar interest but might be very different from their background, from their skills, from their outlook and so on. And then as you think of team, you need to, in particular in our world of, of MedTech biotech.
[00:30:16] Then you need to actually broaden it up to, to the field, right, to the therapeutic area that you're in, understanding what are the major advances that were made? Who are the key pillar leaders today? What do they think? I think it's good to have them tell you what's good, what's bad, and then to be humble enough about that.
[00:30:32] And so I think, I think those, the things are really what's, what really captures a. An investors' imagination. And then it's, it's a match question, right? Is it an area that they're particularly interested in? Uh, or are they looking at another company or another, uh, in the same field, or are they looking at, at just, just completely different fields because this is not what they're doing.
[00:30:50] So, so I think I said a lot, lot of little thing, but if this is a great business and the team is good, and it's an amazing market, I mean, that should get funded. I mean, that's, but [00:31:00] oftentimes it's not crisp, you know, it takes, uh, time and so on. Yeah.
[00:31:04] Stuart Paap: Yeah. So, so talk to me about. You know, what culture means to you at at portal and finding the right people and then cultivating that because finding good people and the right fit is, is extremely challenging.
[00:31:17] And of course, keeping people happy as the company evolves. Yes. As things change. Yeah. So tell me about your experience with creating that and being a part of that. Culture.
[00:31:28] Patrick Anquetil: I think culture is really, really hard actually. I think, I think the bigger the company goes, the, it's really a labor of love. You have to really go at it day in, day out.
[00:31:37] I mean, we, we talked about communication. One of my other mentors said, well, no one's ever been blamed for over communicating, uh, and. That on the other hand, doesn't come naturally. I think, at least to me, you know, it's, it's really against history of law. You have to be intentional and mindful and remember to, to go at it physically every day.
[00:31:55] So I think that's first, the first observation. Second of all, I think the culture [00:32:00] inherently starts with, uh, the individuals basically in, in the top management, right? So not just the CO, but I, the executive team certainly as well. And it's really around, you know, what are the common values that we have that we believe in that will basically, you know, strengthen our ability to meet our objective, to reach our, our mission, and and so on.
[00:32:22] And I think you have to be. Concise and clear about things that you will do and so that you'll not do actually as well what I think that you promote. So for us, actually, uh, I mean there's a broad set of values that we have, but the, the key one are around innovation, curiosity. The one I'm very, very adamant about is teamwork and colleague collegiality.
[00:32:43] We're all colleagues. At the end of the day, we're spending more time. And we deal with our loved our kids, our therefore. That we need to create an environment where people feel valued, people feel [00:33:00] respected, and where they wanna spend the time and do their best work. Um, and I think this idea that you're gonna have a culture of, you know, this management is employees, and you know, I'm the manager, you.
[00:33:11] You know, and for you, you do what I say. I mean, this is, this is, this is not gonna work. In fact, the other thing the team hears from me all the time, as a startup, you have very few advantages actually. I mean, oftentimes you have an unproven technology in an unproven market with, by the way, an unproven team as so, so, and you gonna make mistake, and that's, that's just totally fine.
[00:33:33] But you have to understand that the only advantage you have is speed. If you can move faster than the incumbent, then you can actually make more mistakes and you can actually conversely iterate and progress faster actually as well. The master of this, by the way, I know he is a bit controversial these days, but uh, if we forget the controversy, uh, is really Elon Musk.
[00:33:52] I mean, he's shown how you can really outcompete giants like Boeing, for example. Uh, with [00:34:00] regards to Rock X, uh, like all the top, you know, 10 uh, car companies with regards to Tesla. It's unbelievable. Uh, and all of this was achieved by assembling amazing teams, like the best of the best, and I think he, he really has a talent for that.
[00:34:13] And then competing on, on time, that's the winning formula. Everything yes is just harder.
[00:34:18] Stuart Paap: So speed as a competitive advantage.
[00:34:21] Patrick Anquetil: Hundred percent. Yep. And so the way we've set up the company is actually quite interesting is that we've set it up such that we've actually overinvested in tools to equip the engineers to do their best work out of facilities.
[00:34:33] We have fabrication machinery, uh, rapid prototyping tools, uh, such that, um, the engineers can really be creative. And so I'll give you the example. So imagine that you're an engineer. You gotta design a part. Um, if you know that part. May take you a couple of weeks to get manufactured and to come back to you.
[00:34:52] You're gonna be a bit more conservative. You're not gonna try too many crazy ideas that you may have, right? What if, on the other hand, you can design it in the morning and then go [00:35:00] downstairs and make it, and as you make it, even observe, you know how it's getting made. And imagine now that cycle is one day instead of two weeks.
[00:35:08] I mean, you're gonna try more things and it's compounding. And actually, so. It's engineers to understand at least the one, you know, from when we started the company, uh, that generation, that engineering is highly iterative. I think the education, at least from, you know, 10 years ago, let's say, uh, because I dunno how it's evolved actually now, but, uh, 10 years ago was really, you know, ingenious want perfection.
[00:35:34] You are graded on your ability to get it right. Uh, and this idea that, that you make mistake that you learn from building and, and testing, uh, that's was really, really hard for some of our engineers. Um, because again, they want perfection and just don't wanna look bad. And so creating that culture again, that tolerates mistakes.
[00:35:52] That assumes that we're not gonna get it right the first time, but we're gonna do our best and we're gonna learn, most importantly, from what we've built, [00:36:00] and we're gonna make sure that our iteration cycles, you know, get, get as fast as we can, then we can only win. Right? And I think, I think that's kind of what also culture means, uh, means to us as well.
[00:36:09] Stuart Paap: Well, that's a huge one because in, in many companies, you know, you get to where you are because you're the best in your class and you're the best and you're the best. So you're always celebrated for your successes. Nobody puts their failures on a resume, and then you get into an environment and people say, uh, you're not being judged on your failures, but secretly they are.
[00:36:29] So a lot of people get gun shy. They'll say, well, I'm only gonna submit ideas that I can get behind, otherwise I'm gonna zip it. And it seems like you're really adamant about not just giving the rhetoric to say, we want you to fail and fail fast and try things out, but here are the tools to do that so that you can get more cycles and and reps in so that you.
[00:36:50] Two weeks can be, literally, if you work every day, it can be 14 cycles of failure and improvement. That's right. And so you're just gonna go [00:37:00] exponentially fast. Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
[00:37:01] Patrick Anquetil: Yeah. And the accepting that there is multiple re multiple tries, right? Like you can really try it, try a few things. I mean, there are limits obviously within that.
[00:37:10] I mean, it's, we, we have to be also careful not to be, um, too academic about it, where it doesn't matter, you know, there's no, you know, economic pressure there as well, but an environment where. You know, where, where it's okay to make mistakes. I mean, I'm very clear and talk about it when I made mistakes.
[00:37:27] Look, this, there's a myth on my side and, and, and it's clearly on me. You know, so, so I'm very, very clear at communicate, communicating that. Secondly, we never. Critique someone in a, in a, in a, in a full group and, and shame them. I mean, that's horrible. Maybe it was great 20 years ago, but nowadays this has no place actually, and it's not constructive.
[00:37:47] In the end, you are weakening one of your most precious assets, which is the team, right? You weakening not only, not only the the individuals, but now you've created. With everyone that's out there kind of a climate of fear. It just doesn't [00:38:00] work. And, and I think in particular, this newer generation is very, very sensitive to that as well, which is, which is wonderful.
[00:38:05] But I think there's things that we need to be very, very clear about. We need to be respectful to each other. It's okay. On the other hand, to disagree. I mean, I think we low disagreement because on the end of the day, it means that from that friction, we both learn something. Other, I think it's, again, if it's done properly, I think it's great to have different, different views because o otherwise it means that one of us is just not needed, you know?
[00:38:28] Right. If we're good on everything, you don't need me. Need me, maybe so, so that's again, I think, I think culture is very, very clear if you've asked people, I think most people really like the culture here thinks probably it should be our achievement. For me, it comes very natural, I think, and, and, uh, I, I don't want to kind of pat myself in the back on it because I do think, again, it's a labor of love and, and we, we really, we can always do better actually.
[00:38:51] And so, and we have to constantly overcommunicate and as we, as we grow and bring in more people, it becomes. Again, more complex and we need to over communicate on [00:39:00] that and, and make sure that, uh, that, uh, people feel comfortable and, and so on and heard of course as well.
[00:39:05] Stuart Paap: Right. Well, to do great things, you have to have at least two components, which is you have to hold yourself to high standards, but you also have to believe that you're, I.
[00:39:13] Safe in your, uh, ability to take risks. And when you have those two, then people do amazing things if they feel safe to take risks. So, so, uh, two final questions for you. The one is, I love your transparency because you, you are a real person. You talk about the ups and downs and, and the realities of it. Are there any, you know, I don't wanna call them failures, but setbacks or challenges that you really felt like at the time.
[00:39:39] Maybe were extremely painful, but, but it, in the long run, they actually helped you win more and succeed more because you could compound the learnings.
[00:39:49] Patrick Anquetil: It's interesting, I think you always learn from those challenging situations. You just don't realize it in the moment and it's. Ex, I think as you described, extremely, extremely painful.
[00:39:58] I'm trying to think about a good [00:40:00] example that we've had. I mean, I think one of them in the early days where a partner that basically dropped us out of nowhere and we had to downsize the team because that project was literally canceled. One, I mean one day to the next. And I think as one of the challenges with pharma is that, yeah, that that can happen.
[00:40:16] Um. They pay very well, which is nice, but on the other hand, you know, it can just disappear. And so that was extremely, extremely painful, um, in the moment. But at the same time here, what we thought is, let's first of all make sure that, you know, everyone's taken care of, that we treat people well, that we really go overboard to make sure that they find a home somewhere that, you know, we're like a resume book that we did.
[00:40:38] Uh, we over-communicated, uh, and I think in the end, everyone. It was a sad, uh, time, but on the other hand, everyone landed actually on their feet, uh, afterwards and in fact, two hiring back. We were very clear, look, you know, it's not that our prospect are know, like change dramatically, but nonetheless, we really value [00:41:00] you and we'd love to have you come back.
[00:41:01] And both of them both came back actually the, the two in two instances where we needed basically those people back. Like, you know, four, five months later they actually came back. So I do think, you know, being respectful, being a, a man, you know, like a true human being and understanding that we can only be stronger together.
[00:41:17] And that's the only way. That a human client has achieved things is by teaming up. You know, and, and, and recognizing that, I think, I think it does pay dividend in the long term. And, and to me also, it's very important that the reputation of the company is strong. You know, you don't wanna. You know, you don't want to have people say, oh, it's harder to work there.
[00:41:36] I mean, I would hate that there is no time for basically in a startup environment, right? You, it's already so hard because the market is tough and you know, the competitors are better funded and all that stuff. So you gotta make sure that all the bullshit gets taken out and it's so easy to do. Just leave the ego at the, at the door.
[00:41:52] You have good values, you know, like what your mom or your dad, you know, would've taught you, and you should go from there. Simple.[00:42:00]
[00:42:01] Stuart Paap: So last question for you. How do you balance looking at the short, medium term versus keeping your eye on a vision and ensuring that you're responding to changes in the market? How do you make that balance between those two perspectives?
[00:42:15] Patrick Anquetil: I think that's actually an amazing question. I think it's very, very hard.
[00:42:19] I do think it starts with self-awareness. I think the job of a CEO, even though he or she can do all the, all kind of the minute tasks, is actually not to do those. It's really to, first of all course, find a great vision and, you know, in a strategic, uh, direction or, or at least catalyze it, then hire a team to do that, and then let them.
[00:42:40] Run and then kind of clear out the, clear out sort of the, the hurdles that come along. That's, that's really what the job is. And of course no fundraising and all that stuff. So I think in that context, what's interesting is that, um, it's easy for doers and I think I'm kind of like that. I, I, I thrive on, you know, like doing stuff, you know, and [00:43:00] achieving and so on.
[00:43:01] It's hard not to get caught into that and wanting to do someone else's job, basically. And I think this is, you know, we were talking about Dan Mattel before the, you know, before the interview. I think, I think that's really where he's been very, very clear about that, right? That if you are, if you're doing someone's job, you just don't need them, so just don't hire them.
[00:43:19] Right? I, I think that's, that's how in the end, uh, that team helps you focus actually on the long term. So, I. One way. The other way is also to find some time in your schedule, unfortunately, is actually quite easy to think about those things. What's the best way to do it Where you go to conferences? I think conference is a great opportunity not only to uh, you know, showcase what you've done, meet new people, but also you're in a different environment.
[00:43:46] You travel to get there. Oftentimes the wifi doesn't work on the airplane, so you really have time to think. And I think that that's what I've found has been. I'm very helpful to, you know, travel to conferences or even to travel to see customers actually as well that can give you a little bit of [00:44:00] more perspective and, you know, sort of, you know, uh, trying to tam some fires that are happening in the office and so on.
[00:44:06] I think for a great leader, I mean, the team should be running on their own. And so in fact, what Stan, you know, my Stanley Peter, my mentor would say is that, look, if you're doing a good, a great job as a CEO, you have nothing to do. Everything's taken care of. And so of course it never happens. But that's kind of what you're, you're striving to, to accomplish.
[00:44:22] Yeah. Or to, to get to.
[00:44:23] Stuart Paap: You have to be someone different than maybe your natural strengths are. If you're a born and bred engineer, if you like tinkering, you may want to get your hands involved with projects, but it may not be the best use of your time and energy to grow the company.
[00:44:36] Patrick Anquetil: I think it's hard for people who have actually ha have, are liking kind of, that's that kind of word to work through, to sort of disassociate themselves a little bit from it and, uh, to really trust the team at the end of the day.
[00:44:48] Right. And so I have to say particular for PhDs that are trained to be like really like army of one to do everything, to understand everything, to go from A through z. Of a [00:45:00] project or a bigger project, it's actually something that doesn't come natural because you've been trained exactly in the opposite way.
[00:45:05] Right. And so, uh, that, that's something I found very strong.
[00:45:09] Stuart Paap: You have to trust. Well, Patrick, this has been a fascinating conversation. Where should people go if they wanna learn more about portal instruments, your journey, or just to stay in touch?
[00:45:19] Patrick Anquetil: I think the easiest way, the company's website obviously is easy to find.
[00:45:22] Portal instruments.com, the easiest way to reach out to me through LinkedIn. You know, I, I do look at my messages and, uh, if, if they're thoughtful, I will respond to them. Uh, in other words, if they're not, you know, just, um, uh, yeah, super easy to reach. Uh, I love mentoring. I think it's a, um, or just think actually about this, this morning.
[00:45:40] Um, I do think the world always needs role models and, and people basically to. Help the younger generation and so on, because we didn't get there on our own right. I mean, it's, uh, with a lot of learning, with a lot of support, and I think it's just, uh, something that I found very, very rewarding. But also I learned a lot, actually, I learned a lot from younger folks, you know, and, and what, [00:46:00] what their struggles are and, and what their point of view is as well.
[00:46:03] And that's, uh, that's something I found very enriching actually as well. So you have to please do reach out, uh.
[00:46:10] Stuart Paap: Yeah. Patrick, this is fascinating. I so appreciate your time and energy and just your enthusiasm for working on hard problems over time with good people. Uh, what better way to have a rich and rewarding life.
[00:46:22] So thank you so much for your time.
[00:46:24] Patrick Anquetil: Thank you, sir. Great. Great being there. Great question. Great interview.
[00:46:27] Really enjoyed it. All right.
[00:46:28] Outro: subscribe at dnate.com to get access to our cutting edge research expert insights and deep dives with industry leaders shaping the future of biotech. You've been listening to a podcast production from dnate.com, all rights reserved.
